Arthur: [00:00:00] Welcome, everybody, to Pitching Passion. Really excited to have Ankur Tewari here. Our first musician. Am I? Yeah, you're the first- Wow ... musician we've
Ankur: What have you been doing? You should be talking- ... to musicians, more musicians.
I know.
Arthur: be talking- ... to musicians, more musicians.
I know. It's taken me a, a while to wake up. Yeah.
Ankur: So excited to be
Arthur: but so excited to be chatting to you. You will be able to share insights into a lot of exciting areas for people. But, listeners listening to this or watching, . who doesn't love music?
Must be the biggest common denominator across- That's why- ...
Ankur: why I'm surprised that I'm your first
Arthur: musician. I know. So just to give s- some - context you're primarily a, a singer-songwriter with graceful Indi- indie pop, folk, and rock compositions, but really, you delve into quite a number of genres.
You've been described also as a poet, an award-winning lyricist, entrepreneur, and music supervisor. You make your own music, work on film and TV series, and have won two Filmfare Awards for your work on the Bollywood hit Gully Boy as music [00:01:00] supervisor and lyricist, as well as working on Slumdog Millionaire from 2008.
Born in Brussels, in Belgium, in 1977, coming from a family of engineers and teachers, you initially chose hotel management and graduated from IHM Bhopal, then immediately switched to music and theater and have been recording
And in the music world since 1998,
with over half a million people listening to your music a month.
It's quite something just to conceive that there's... get your head around that there's half a million people, over half a million people-
grand
Ankur: internationally, but we are so many of us in India, so
Arthur: it's actually quite okay. No, grandeur is
Ankur: quite
Arthur: on this podcast.
Yeah. I'm afraid i- this is ... th- these are phenomenal facts. And you've released your new album, Mr. Fari. Yeah.
What does music give you?
Ankur: Music gives me liberation. Music gives me freedom. It's funny we're talking on Independence Day [00:02:00] in India.
a perfect day to express what music gives me.
It takes you places, it's therapeutic, it is a companion for life. You can express through music. You feel things every day in your life, and then you can release them through your songs.
You
don't need to hold a lot of emotions inside you when music is there.
You can just express them and ease your system. And it helps in terms of consuming music, it makes you feel less lonely in life. If you listen to a piece of music, you connect with it, and you feel "Okay, there's somebody else who's felt like how I'm feeling now.
And when music becomes your soundtrack of your life, it just, it's just the most phenomenal thing.
Arthur: It's almost
unexplainable, right? Just like the concept of you feel a certain way, and then you press a button, and then you're just, physically in so- totally your dimension changes.
Ankur: It is I feel, the best way to time travel.
And not just [00:03:00] listening to music through machines. You just probably you're walking down the road, there's a busker singing a song. That song reminds me of someone, some place, something. Takes you to a completely different time, It pulls you out of this space-time zone that you're in.
Flings you in a universe
that's- completely
removed from where you are.
And
even if you're gone for probably a short, mo- period of time you feel that you've gone for a long time. Like you really visit a place and you come back.
Arthur: Do you have early memories?
And do you feel that in quite a big way you connected to music compared to other people looking back earlier on in life?
Ankur: Always connected with music. My mom tells me that I used to sleep on the piano where landlady used to play, and my ear used to be on the piano.
I remember that, What's that company? Fisher-Price? They have these toys and you pull a string. And it's a lullaby that goes, i- in the cot when you're a kid.
So [00:04:00] music has always been, like, part of my life. I loved the idea of music. It was very late in my life I realized that it's not the same for everyone.
Arthur: It- ...
Ankur: was really,
I was, like, crushing onto different songs or music pieces to take me through my early period of life. My parents had a very good collection of music, so I would just listen to music all the time. If they would go out, my sister and I would just put a vinyl in, and then we would just dance to it.
And, pretend to write some lyrics, on words that we didn't understand, and you would pretend to be a singer. You would be in a small room, but you would believe that you're in the middle of a stadium singing for so many people,
so It
Arthur: sounds like she had a part in, you exploring this role that you have now, music and- Yeah
and lyrics.
Ankur: The, the music that my sister and I heard and how we consumed it,
Almost in a performative way it is very instrumental in where I am today.
Arthur: Throw us into who you were listening to. Yeah,
Ankur: . So I was born in [00:05:00] Belgium, so my parents had recorded a lot of radio from Brussels.
and so we
would listen to the radio recordings, and sometimes they wouldn't even know what I'm listening to because there would be no name to the song. They were just mixtapes.
So
I realized much later that I had heard Dire Straits before I had heard Dire Straits. There was
a song on the cassette, I remember, Tunnel of Love.
Then a lot of ABBA, Boney M. Then Joe Dassin, this French singer. Then there were a lot of ghazals from India Jagjit Singh, Mehdi Hassan. And a lot of instrumental. Anand Shankar LP we had, which we loved.
So
it was all, all sorts of mixed bag of music, and I grew up in a small town, which is a university.
My father was a professor in a university, so we grew up in the campus, and all the students in the campus would live in the hostels.
They had tapes that they would be passing around. Th- That kind of music introduced me to [00:06:00]rock and metal, and-
Then there was
Different kind of music coming from home, different kind of music coming from students who were listening to music. So it was a time of analog exchange of music. You would go to a shop, and you would listen to something and tell them, "Okay, that, that's the song I heard. Who is it by?" The shopkeepers
were-
The kind of, the custodians of music.
So they would say you heard this, you should also listen to this," and they'll pull out a tape and give to you. So it was quite interesting of where music was coming f- to you. Before the world of algorithms, it was- people who were just giving you things not really even knowing you, but throwing things at you, and then you would be exposed to music that you would never imagine that you would like.
as
Arthur: a musician, do you feel like
you're concentrating on music, i-in a different way? Y- are you quite often thinking about, what to adopt or ob- observing from a kind of producer mindset?
Ankur: That's
not-- I'm [00:07:00] not a very technical musician.
I never learnt music anywhere. I just kept on playing. My approach to music is very straightforward. Is it moving your body? Is it moving your soul? These are the two things I look for, and then I don't question the genre or... If it's making me feel something, there's something obviously right about it.
Then once you start liking something, then you go into a loop with the song, then you start investigating the song a little later.
Then
you say, "Okay what is in this that, that's attracting you? Why are you
grooving
to this?" And then you
Start investigating that much after.
Arthur: And, they're real expressions, music. Y- your new album dives into really specific emotions that people can feel and that you've felt. What's that like to open your vulnerability to people in that way?
Ankur: I would say it almost feel like not opening your vulnerability, but sharing your vulnerability with people, and there's an exchange that [00:08:00] happens.
When you play your music and it connects with people, then they come and tell you what they felt and what they've been going through. They tell you stories of, where they were. so it's almost like an exchange program, I have... I probably take the first step and I put the word out, "Okay, this is how I'm feeling.
I'm feeling betrayed, and
this
is how it goes." And after the show or later on social media, somebody would type in a message or write a note to me and then say, this is how they were feeling, and this is what they got from the song. And you would discuss things, and you would take that discussion further.
And it would make for a beautiful conversation every-
time.
Arthur: What's it like to perform in front of people? Is that, for you the top of the mountain? in terms of experiences
Ankur: And
I'm thinking because of top of the mountain phrase. For me I don't compare. Everything is very different. When you write it, it's a different experience. Yeah. When you are when you are playing it, it's different. When you're playing it in an intimate setting, it's different. When you're playing at [00:09:00] a big-- on a big stage, it's different.
So it's they're all different experiences, but I feel the one common factor is that music does unite people and brings people together.
And
ultimately, if I just write a song and it just stays in my head, it's--
It doesn't release through my system, so- r- I feel once a song is out there, then you also see it from a perspective.
You also see, okay what was... Like, like sometimes I go through my older catalog, some songs I would have released 10 years back. And
I
listen to that song, it seems like a different person. Okay, what was this kid going through at that time? What was I going through? What was happening
with
me? You almost timestamp your life. It's like writing a diary probably. So you're writing a diary, and then you come across a diary from many years back, and you flip the pages and oh, this is what I was going through then,
or
this is what I was feeling. And oh, yeah, this is nice. I could have said this better, but I f- I understand what I was [00:10:00] doing.
Yeah.
Arthur: When you chat to other musicians, do you find that they relate to you in a really similar way in terms of what they get from creating music and performing? Or there are quite big differences?
Ankur: There are differences for sure, there are different personalities, different kind of people who approach different aspects of music.
Some people are geeky, they would go to the technology side. Some people are about referencing, they would say, "Okay, this is this." They would try and classify what kind of music it is. Some people would go into the meaning of the lyrics, the words, where's the poetry taking them. Different people approach music differently, but the one thing is that there is a sense of like when we go to music festivals and we're hanging in green rooms, that's my favorite thing in music festivals, hanging in green rooms, meeting other musicians, seeing what they're doing, what kind of set have they made, and they discuss their experience of how was the soundcheck and how is now what kind of music are they presenting and [00:11:00] what are they looking for.
You really realize that there is a sense of innocence in all the musicians. There is a sense of a naivety in which how we approach the world.
It, there is there's a sense where we do probably end up feeling or we do end up identify our feelings more than other people who are stuck in the matrix-
I would say. Where you, when you start working a corporate job, you're going every day.
There's a loop to it.
Arthur: to it.
Ankur: You find a rhythm to it, and you start finding comfort in that rhythm. It's ironic that musicians work in the world of rhythm, but our lives are quite chaotic.
You never know if a song is coming to you today or not. There's unpredictability. Then every day, every Monday doesn't look the same.
This Monday, 11 AM here next Monday, 11 AM, I could be completely different, in a different place. I might not even be working. Maybe I'll be sleeping. Maybe I'll be up. Maybe I would have worked out. Maybe I would have
gone for a jog. [00:12:00] Anyth- it could be anything, or maybe I'm writing a song. You never know, so it's... Every day is different. So you realize that it also gives you a perspective of how, life is different when you compare it to people who are salaried, for instance, and they have that, check hitting the bank at that date every time.
They know where we have-- We lead very unpredictable lives, so some months
are good, some months are not good.
So
it can take you anywhere. So it's kinda wild.
Arthur: Speaking of taking you anywhere have you always had a sense of trust about, things working out? Being, as you say, in such a creative space, certainty doesn't exist.
And actually, it's true, certainty doesn't exist anywhere, right? There are areas which have the illusion of, certainty more so in oth- than other areas. Have you always had a sense of if this s- song isn't quite right, then it might be other one
Ankur: I feel like you put your honest effort in every song that you put out. You never know why a song works. Anybody who [00:13:00] tells you why a song worked they probably are lying to you, because you don't know what all went through what was happening in the world at that time.
In what circumstance the song was released, how did people consume it, why people started liking it. I don't know why people have liked some of my songs and have not liked some
of my other songs. I don't know the reason, there's no need to analyze that because it's... it'll always be a hypothesis.
You never know the real reason.
But the one thing that is common in, with all the music that has worked is that they're brutally honest, audacious stories. Like, all of them. You put yourself out there. The More you put yourself out there, the more you are honest about expressing what you
felt-
people connect with it. That's one common factor. It's not that it works every time, because I've done that in other songs that have not caught the imagination of the world, and they've just slipped through the gaps and fly- flew under the radar and never were
noticed as much as they could have.
But [00:14:00] I know what the songs that have worked, that's one common factor- in all the songs.
Arthur: Do you have a view on how to maximize being in sync with being able to write great music? Is it, something... I- is it partly looking after yourself or, having a certain level of energy or being around great people?
Ankur: Yeah. . I feel that the world is always giving you clues how to write a song.
And you're
out there, you're talking to people, you're meeting people. You're seeing an exhibit.
You are reading a book. You saw a film.
You noticed an image while walking down the road that struck by you. You always you we don't realize how much a brain stores in the system. There's so many things it's, it keeps in it
In, in in
Arthur: place in the sky.
Ankur: this little s- place- ...under the skull. But
what happens in the process of writing music, you are, Submitting yourself, you get into almost a, not [00:15:00]
too
freaky or a trance-like state. You're playing some music you're listening to it, and you're lost in the thought, and you really lose yourself.
Where I feel like every time I've written a song, I've lost the concept of time and space. As I said, that's what songs do to you. You just
Probably daydreaming or
...
Ankur: Meddling with the thought of feeling- and it just
Arthur: it just
Ankur: you in a meditative space.
...
Ankur: And then the song starts flowing through you.
Probably nature chooses to speak through you at that time and-
then you
Let yourself free and let it, let it flow through you. And then
When,
most of it is there, then you start seeing it, investigating it, constructing it a little bit, and just adjusting it
and sculpting it from there. But
it's all in your system where you would meet somebody at a bar, have a nice conversation, and then
you
would note that and say, "Okay, now this is an interesting thought." And then you would be going down the street and you see an image and say, "Oh, yeah, that's an interesting image." And sometimes when you start writing and you're in that meditative state, that [00:16:00] image that you saw, and the conversation you had, they end up meeting.
"Oh, yeah, that image is actually this, and this i- if I
talk about this image, I'll be talking about what this person was saying in the bar." So they connect. So all the subconscious files that are in your system, they're talking to each other, and they're arranging themselves in some kind of a pattern.
And slowly out of nothing, some image starts to appear, and slowly it becomes clearer and clearer, and then the song is there.
Arthur: Extraordinary. the process of creating a song, - does it start with different things? Sometimes it starts with lyrics, which come from a thought or sometimes it comes from a tune which just came to your head on a walk or...
Ankur: yeah, for me, the, the tune and the lyrics, they're all like bricks that make that house. But we're not just building a building. We are, like, making a house, so it has to come with love and a feeling. And
the
first thing that [00:17:00] comes to you is a feeling. You feel something and you say- I wanna express this feeling."
Then
to quantify that feeling, to qualify that feeling, probably a musical piece might-
...
Ankur: Attached itself to it, or a word might attach to it, or a phrase might attach to it. And sometimes it's simultaneous, sometimes it's one or the other. But the main thing is, okay
what path am I taking?
Where am I going walking with this? Or I'm walking the path of jealousy. Okay, I felt jealous,
so I'm
walking the path of jealousy today. So then I'm walking that path, then maybe a musical piece will come my way or maybe a phrase will come my way and then
they'll start interacting, and then you don't know.
So it's organic. But the thing that takes time is to understand, okay, this is what I felt in, in my stomach and
This is what I need to express
Arthur: It seems to make sense to if you feel a certain way to express it somehow.
Let it out or at least acknowledge how you feel, and that I guess that's that whole thing of labeling your emotions. You-
Ankur: led by emotions. Say for instance you spoke about your your [00:18:00] camera fell down- the other day. There must be a feeling that you must have felt, like a disappointment or like, disappointment in you. I said, Why didn't I think about it or-
Arthur: yeah ...
Ankur: why was I not careful? Or where is it? Or whatever you felt. Like now, as artists, we exaggerate those feelings. I would catch onto that, Okay, now That is a good thing. I'm disappointed in myself. Now, that is a great clue, so I would hang onto that clue, and I would start investigating that clue.
Then I would say, "Okay, when was I disappointment with myself last? Okay, this has not happened just once. It's happened a few times before. It's a pattern." So then oh, yeah, it's a pattern. It's been happening. It happened to me when I didn't do well in my school when I was in standard two. It happened to me again when I was in college.
It happened to me when I messed up in my love life or I- did something horrible in my job. And suddenly you're starting to get scenes- and those [00:19:00] scenes are now s- you're starting to construct a story from something completely which, which would have just passed, just like a, like a gust of wind, and you wouldn't have noticed how you can just, like...
It is like a s- wind, and how do you make a whirlpool out of it and make a tornado out of it and churn it. And then when you churn it more and more, stories from your system start to come out, and- Wow. you would construct it.
Arthur: That's fascinating.
Ankur: you can write a song.
Arthur: Yeah. Su- suddenly the world of music has become much more competitive.
You've given us some tools here. Speaking of- taking people on journeys. Are there two songs that perhaps you'd like to share about what feelings they express?
Ankur: So there's one song in the album.
It's called Asma Mile. It's about meeting the skies. And that was the first lyric I wrote for the album. And it was about grief and anxiety. I was going [00:20:00] through an anxious period
and everybody says that, you can use your anxiety to, express yourself. And the first lines that came to me the translation of that couplet would be they say that to write, you just don't need a pen and paper.
You also need some grief. But there is, there's
so much to write, sometimes I wonder that I should have less grief in my life. So that's where- the thing started, then it went into a pre-chorus of how- but this heart yearns to it's just looking for an excuse to beat. May this heart find shelter in the storm. May this heart find a sky when it wants to fly.
is that's how the first part of the song- resolved. Then the second part of the song came into how anxiety is kinda sneaky. It enters your system. It [00:21:00] doesn't even announce itself. So it comes
and
enters your system without announcing itself.
Arthur: And now,
Ankur: sometimes things go so horribly wrong that this guest that was just visiting you starts demanding rent from you.
Then you say, "May, may this, this heart yearns to beat," and is just looking for an excuse to beat. May it find a shelter in the storm. May it find a sky
if
it wants to fly.
Th- that's how the-
Arthur: the- ... the
Ankur: thought of, like, how I dealt with my anxious period, with telling my, Okay, now talking
to my anxiety and pushing it out.
You're not welcome in my home anymore- if my body is my home, you're not welcome here,
and Stop demanding rent from me with my
Arthur: health- ... and
Ankur: and my mental state. Please leave now. And that was a conversation I was having with my
anxiety
at that time, and
It... And now the song is a reminder for me to [00:22:00] never let
anxiety in, into your system unannounced because it'll come and then it'll fucking sit in your system, so
It's
like a balm on your wound.
Arthur: Just yeah, what, don't welcome anxiety. That, and what, look out for it, and if you see it coming,
Ankur: yeah, if you see it coming, you address it. and you address it as sometimes you start finding comfort in the anxiety. Sometimes you start fi- First it comes in sneaky. you start feeling bad about yourself, and there's a comfort in that when you're feeling bad about yourself and your situation.
Arthur: Then- Yeah ...
Ankur: then you realize, oh, no, now this thing is not leaving
me.
Arthur: Yeah. Now writing for films.
Tell us how that works. Slumdog Millionaire,
Ankur: let's,
Slumdog Millionaire I just did an acting part, which was like a ten-second acting part.
Arthur: Tell us about that experience.
basically
Ankur: Millionaire was casting in India. One of my friends was casting for it, and I'm not an actor, but I wanted to be on that set because that's where you learn things. Yeah. [00:23:00] So I told her, "I want to be on that set. Can you get me on that set?" And she said actually there's a little acting part which is really small, maybe one dialogue or two dialogues, but you'll g- end up spending a couple of days on set."
So I said, "Yeah, I'm doing it." I auditioned for it. They liked it. They called me. So I s- ended up spending two days on the Slumdog set, and it was amazing to see them make that film that the way they were making it. It was a really enlightening experience because I think Danny Boyle was just coming from making
The Beach before that.
And The Beach was probably the biggest film of the year before with the biggest actor, biggest studio.
Arthur: Tilda Swinton.
Ankur: This was Leonardo
DiCaprio-
Yeah ...
in
In Thailand. Yeah. I think it's a Miramax film. I'm
not sure. Yeah.
Arthur: Yeah. And then suddenly
Ankur: he is
in the
middle of a slum with a camera that they have invented, and the cameraman is holding the camera like this and has a hard drive on his back.
And
[00:24:00] they sh-
l- Like, I had imagined it's a Hollywood movie. It would be huge. It would be big. It was like they were shooting it like they didn't know whether they were gonna shoot the next day. It felt like as indie as an indie film can be.
And
it was quite an eye-opener for me because the kind of energy on set was
Arthur: really
Ankur: Sharp.
Everyone was sharp because they knew that they had very little to lose but they also had everything to lose. The film wouldn't move forward if
if it, they didn't cover what they had to cover and how they had to cover and how he made that film was incredible.
Arthur: And w- and the scene you were in?
Ankur: I was in some call center scene somewhere. I've not seen the film in so many
Arthur: years.
Ankur: now. Yeah. I love it
[00:25:00]
Arthur: What you have so many creative people in your world. What do you think the luxury is of that?
Ankur: It's like I feel like people always classify what you end up doing. So some people would call me a singer-songwriter.
Yeah. Some people would call me a music supervisor. Similarly, in music you say, okay I write-- I'm a reggae musician or I'm a pop musician- or I'm a rock musician. And I feel like,
If we can look beyond those boxes that we put ourselves
Arthur: in.
Ankur: In a way, we're all storytellers. We're telling our stories- and we're telling our stories through medium. So I see everyone as a storyteller.
You are a storyteller. You're telling your stories through your medium. There's a director who's telling the stories through their meeting medium. Writers are telling their way. Songwriters are doing their way.
Musicians are doing it their way. So at the core where you end up [00:26:00] connecting is the storytelling technique, because that kind of gives you the flow of like how are you gonna engage with people. Some-- You give the same kind of anecdote to narrate to five people.
They'll all hold the audience very differently,
They
all
Present it in a different way, and then they will like-- the rhythm will be different, and some people will just
You will
not be interested in the same anecdote.
Because the way they are telling the story,
You'll-
probably fetch your phone, play a game, send them a message or something. Some
people, you'll be so in- invested in that you won't
Arthur: people
Ankur: what's happening. You'll Be leaning forward and
Arthur: listening
to the story- ...
Ankur: and completely engaged And the same anecdote. the way you express, and I think that's what is exciting about all storytellers, whether they're filmmakers or whether they're writers or whether they're musicians.
It's like how are they telling you the story and how are they taking the story forward and how are they presenting the thing? It's the same seven notes. How are they playing those seven notes
Arthur: notes and- ...
Ankur: and
Arthur: like
Ankur: [00:27:00] weaving a web that you are so happily entangled in.
Arthur: Wow. And then, there you are casting the, endless webs for people through your songs and experiences.
The way you talk between
Your songs and must be really moving when people come up to you and, you've already shared that, but when people sh-share their experiences of where your songs take them. Are there any particular f-
Moments that have been particularly moving for you may- from people sharing their experience of how you've connected them to something?
Ankur: There have been a few instances. One in particular really touched me, where someone who was
Battling cancer heard my music through their
Arthur: chemo
Ankur: and, i
didn't-- Like you-- When you're making music, you don't realize where it's gonna go. And it really-- Like sometimes you wonder, like
Arthur: sometimes
Ankur: you have wonderable times of th- what are you doing?
What's the point of this? Why don't you do a money gig to get a lot of money? And then [00:28:00]things like this happen when you realize oh my God, like it's
Some--
It
is really been with someone at a very important juncture of their lives. I've had people come up to me and quote me some lines that have-- that are there in my song and said, "This line meant this to me, and this is how I dealt with that tough period or happy period of my life with
this thing."
Arthur: And
Ankur: then you realize that
It's
interesting to be a part of so many people's lives in this manner.
Arthur: So wonderful.
What do you think the privilege is of being a musician today in terms of how we're connected and how we've got these platforms?
Ankur: When I started making music, it was difficult to record music. Not difficult to make music, because you still- had the tools, but to record the music and put it out there.
Today with technology, you can
pretty much set up, a studio in your home.
Arthur: You can record, you can
Ankur: mix master, [00:29:00] put it out to the world through the internet. Earlier, your CDs would only reach a certain place. Now, your music... sometimes you see the backend of your music, and
your music
is being heard in Jamaica or North Korea- or some-
Arthur: Yeah. "
Ankur: Oh, wow,"
Arthur: wow," to your music
Ankur: there. Wow. So it's like, it really blows your mind when you see your music traveling to different places.
Earlier it was more difficult. Now I feel it's very- exciting where you can get your music,
Where you can get your music to. But at the same time, because it's easier, so many more people are making it, which is a good thing. But then it also, there's a lot of clutter.
How do you break through the clutter? There are newer questions that emerge.
I wouldn't say it's a privilege, but it's different times, and they're exciting times.
And they're always
The world is always moving in a direction where it it gives you some and then takes
some. are
Arthur: there platforms that make it easy , or manageable to connect with fans, to give them, certain things and be able to [00:30:00] monetize as well from that, as well as, distribute connection in a nice way
Ankur: yeah, you do monetize. In India, we don't get as much royalties as people get outside. But there are various ways I feel like you can build a really nice base of people who like your music, and you can build your brand and then see how you can connect with them in different manners- with offline, online, and then-
take
it forward. There are platforms like, obviously, there are platforms where you distribute your music. There are platforms you can connect with fans directly. You can, you have platforms to virtually reach out- to places where you can't
physically go.
Arthur: And a- as an artist, is it clear to you, what you want for yourself going forward?
Ankur: There are certain patterns that you're following, you always wanna break those patterns.
I'm definitely interested in presenting music as art and not as just, not just a performance
piece.
Arthur: Like-
Ankur: can it get a value that a painting gets?
A piece of music,
can it be [00:31:00] valued like that?
Arthur: Can it be-
Ankur: can it be consumed in a different way? Can it be
Arthur: Can it be-
Ankur: experienced in a different way? We always experience music in certain ways,
Arthur: like 10 or
Ankur: or 15 ways in which you go to a arena or a theater or a jam.
So can you find different ways of presenting your music?
Can music be used in different ways? Can different forms combine and, work with music?
So
Those are the things that are build your curiosity- and then you try and see what, what will come, It'll come when it'll come.
Arthur: come.
It's quite isolating, in some ways, writing music.
What's it like to work with other musicians, and what's that creative process like when you're working, more in an environment where it's not just you that is the creator?
Ankur: So I treat the first inception of the thought as a sacred one, which I do on my own. So I make a little, like rough structure, rough vibe, and then I start meeting with musicians who might add to it, whether they're my band mates or producers, and [00:32:00] then you all start, sculpting it together and building in parts. And then you just... And everyone's tripping on that thing, and then people come up with parts, and go, yeah, that part is good. This is good." Then you start putting it together, and the core was already built, but then this kind of like flavoring and the, and what do you call, the garnish helps, the dish tastier.
Arthur: There's ways of operating really well with other people. Are there some things that you've seen from or you've learned to be the best way to work in a team in terms of producing content?
Ankur: I think laughter and good food. That's what we try and do in studios, is I feel the best ideas come in the smoking corners or the coffee machine.
and where you just, have a sense of ease when you're not feeling that you can present an idea, you'll be judged. You can be as stupid as possible. You can say whatever you have to say, and you'll not be judged. So that's why like when, even when I form my band, the one thing we're looking for that everyone should have horrible [00:33:00] sense of humor.
So that we can just laugh together, and I feel like laughter is such a beautiful thing. It just puts your body at ease. And when your body's at ease, then your mind can go anywhere, if your body's tensed up, then you- also block yourself. Then your mind doesn't go to wild spaces.
But it's like
the
key thing that should be put on every studio is why not, why don't we do this? Let's try this. Let's go there, and
And
Yeah, obviously you have to rein yourself sometimes and say that you're not going off track from your core idea. That's why I say the, the first inception is, for me, sacred.
But once it's there, then any wild idea can come and
Find itself a home in that idea.
Arthur: Performing in different places around the world, what's that that give you?
Ankur: It's very exciting because
there is
one set of shows that you do where you know your core audience is coming, they're gonna sing along every song.
They've come to love you. There are places you f- play where the people have come to judge you. There are places where people [00:34:00] have no idea who you are, and you have to really put your A game on and get their attention and make sure when they leave the room, they're in love with your music.
So you you work each audience differently, and you make a set that kind of my management helps me understand the audience. I do my homework of what kind of audience is gonna come. w- what kind of people. Is it Standing audience, sitting audience, indoors, outdoors young kids, older people, be cold, it'll
be warm, it'll be uncomfortable, it'll be comfortable. Just get a vibe of where you are, and then you apply
with
your kind of set to those logistics.
Arthur: I imagine there must be a funny balance in looking for validation somewhat. Maybe it's not necessarily about looking for validation, but, you play somewhere, you want people to enjoy it, and, it must be frustrating when it's just, a crowd that, for some reason completely out of your control that there isn't that connection in the way that you want.
What's... How do you manage [00:35:00] that relationship and that expectation for yourself?
Ankur: Sometimes you have horrible gigs where nobody's listening to you, and you're just doing your thing, and you're
there, but for me, if it's-- if there's one person in the audience who are listening to me, I'm good. I need to lock into two or three even better.
Then I lock into those two or three people, and then I play my gig for them. If they are invested, so I'll play my gig for them. But I also feel like I don't wanna impose my music on anyone. And
one
I'm not so hard on the decorum of the room. You should do- what you feel like doing.
But if my music will appeal to you, you will listen to me.
Arthur: And also, when you're performing, fine, you've got the audience, but you've got you. Are you good at making sure that you enjoy it? And the, then
Ankur: I'm always nervous in the first two, three songs. So usually- it's difficult for me to open my eyes and sing, so I have my eyes shut. I'm imagining everyone's loving it, but you start feeling the vibes of the people, and you understand, okay, that side I'm getting some good vibes. I would open my eyes- ... on that side and look at them. And then you'll find two or three people who are liking it.
You identify those. Then you [00:36:00] start seeing the people who are getting distracted, then you try put your attention to them, bring them in, usher them in, because people also don't-- Sometimes people are drifting away subconsciously. They're not consciously drifting away. But you just have to hold the room together and
Arthur: you know-
Ankur: almost herd them like a cattle.
if they Is it too
rude to say that?
No, Yeah.
Arthur: Oh it's been so wonderful. I think we're pretty much that. But is there anything else you'd like to share?
Ankur: just like my new album Mr. Farek. It's about celebrating the concept of sitting idle and not putting pressure your-- on
Arthur: yourself- of,
Ankur: Productivity and doing something.
Can you just enjoy doing something? We've forgotten that feeling. The cities we live in don't help us do that. The, the work doesn't help you do that. I feel it's good to not do things sometimes and just sit on it. We all kind of suffer from procrastination.
This album is about an investigation into procrastination, [00:37:00] of why you're feeling anxious, and why you're delaying it to the last minute, and
what are you trying to do? What are you trying to achieve by doing that? And how can you ease yourself and not put that pressure on you?
And really value the time that is free.
I think the value, personally for me, the value of the time that is free has diminished over the years.
I don't value as that as much. I pretend to be free. I would go on a vacation, but I'm not really free. I'm still connected back- from where I'm coming from. I'm checking messages. I'm
Arthur: going- ... where--
Ankur: I'm
on social media checking things, what's happening around I'm not, like, let myself
just-
...
Ankur: Free and daydream.
So this album is for daydreamers, yeah.
Arthur: Anka, Towari, thank you so much for today. It's been such a privilege for us all to get really such a, a deep and honest well-articulated sense of what it's like to
be a musician, what it's like to write, what it's like to share these experiences. [00:38:00] And really get a sense of the generosity of of the heart of a, an artist and that sense of giving, but also looking to understand their world and the ways in which that rewards them , and the kind of complexity and o- of the life of a creative in the sort of amazing ways in which,
G- it, it gives to creatives but also, what people take away from their creations. Thank you so much. It
Ankur: a pleasure. I hope you find more musicians, writers. And poets along your way
