Arthur: Welcome everybody to today's episode of Pitching Passion. With Jun Tanaka. Who doesn't like food? We've got here a chef and the owner of The Ninth in London. Hopefully our world's gonna be opened up to his world, sharing the light onto what it's like to be a chef- the world of food today, hospitality, looking after people. Not looking after just customers, but looking after the team- ... which is something you take great pride in. Just to give you a bit of context into Jun. Jun began your culinary career aged 19, working at Le Gavroche, where you embarked on your first apprenticeship under the mentorship of the Roux brothers, which there was a two-year waiting list, right?
Jun: Yeah, at that time there was,
Arthur: a man of great ambition, you wrote to the top three restaurants
They were the ones that responded, right?
Jun: Yeah. I ... It's luck. I was 19 years old, no experience in a kitchen. I was at a college, but it was hotel management.
It was a three-year course. And what happened was, after the first year, I got a letter [00:01:00] sent to my home. I was living with my parents at that time. And the letter said- "Dear Mr. Tanaga, due to your lack of attendance, we won't require you to come back for the third year." And then at that point, my dad sees this and says you're on your own," and then I say to him, because he was here eating and working for a, a company and he knew all the best restaurants in London because he'd taken his clients there. So I said to him, "Tell me the top three restaurants in London right now." And he said, "Le Gavroche, Chez Nico, and Marco Pierre White."
So I wrote to all of them asking for a job and telling them that I was passionate about food, and Le Gavroche wrote back and asked for an interview. I was pure luck, honestly. And I rock up 19 years old to, at that time, the best restaurant in the country, and I can't remember the interview, to be honest with you, but it must have gone [00:02:00] well because he offered me a job.
Arthur: Absolute
baloney. Look at how you present yourself today. I arrived here, things were so immaculate on. You are clearly a serious man who has so much passion for this field. You have forged your path with great dedication, clearly. Just going back to the context, so following your training in classical French cuisine, you went on to work for some of the UK's greatest Michelin star chefs, including
Nico Le Denis at Chez Nico Phil Howard at The Square, and Marco Pierre White.
You've
also hosted your own television series in 2006, called Cooking It on Channel 4, and still to this day appear on TV on the likes of Saturday Kitchen and MasterChef: The Professionals, as well as having written a recipe book, Simple to Sensational,
In 2015 that you launched your solo venture, The Ninth, which is why we're here today on Charlotte Street in Fitzrovia, London, which quickly gained a Michelin star restaurant on the year of the opening, an accolade which [00:03:00] it has retained since. Something that's super important to you- which we're definitely gonna be digging into, is that in 2026, you were included for the first time in The Sunday Times Best Places to Work list.
John,- you're clearly an artist. Painting, brushes. Some brush strokes we can see as call it consumers people from the outside. We can t- we can taste the food, we can notice certain flavors. But we're never really gonna fully get into , your mind of the pleasures that you get and the dedication
And the focus that you've had on doing what you do.
What are the hidden treats and joys you get from what you're doing today?
Jun: The joy of cooking is taking a beautiful seasonal ingredient and then creating something that you can smell, touch, see, taste
Arthur: within
Jun: a few hours, a few minutes, a few days, that people can really appreciate.
And that creative process is something that I absolutely [00:04:00] love. It's always different, it's endless because there are so many different ingredients ideas. So that part of it, for me is the most enjoyable. It's that creative aspect of it. And also, with food, we're really privileged because people come to restaurants to celebrate weddings and anniversaries and special occasions, and they they make memories in our restaurants, we have the opportunity to be a part of that memory, and it's quite a privilege to be able to do that.
Arthur: Different people get, different experiences from cooking. . Let's say you've... had a long week at work. The world's pretty demanding, but you've got some friends coming around for, a Saturday barbecue.
at yours.
Run us through ,
the journey, the
excitement, from the ideas to what you wanna do to, the outcome.
Jun: If I'm cooking at home, I keep it super simple. I do not try to overcomplicate it. And I do think about the fact that if I've got friends coming over, I want to spend [00:05:00] most of my time with them enjoying myself.
So I keep it very simple. And a barbecue is generally what I do all the time, whether the weather is- Really? ... bad or not. It's
Arthur: thing. It's your
Jun: Because it's less washing up. . The flavor of the charcoal enhances
Arthur: food.
Jun: And generally, I always do seafood because it's really easy, and most people won't cook seafood on a barbecue at home.
So for them it's something different, a treat. So it could be a whole sea bass, a whole turbot, some red prawns, and serve that with different kinds of salads make the salads the- day before. Have all the vinaigrettes made. And then the fish, , a good tip for barbecuing fish on a barbecue is you get the whole fish, and you leave it uncovered in the fridge to dry out for 24 hours.
And what that does is it really almost dehydrates the skin, which it doesn't lose moisture. The outside skin becomes very [00:06:00] dry. And then you turn it , after 12 hours, so it's completely dry all over, and then that way it won't stick to the barbecue, and you get the really crispy skin. so the way to cook fish is dry the skin out, lightly oil it, it on the barbecue.
Arthur: the barbecue. And vegetables I feel like veg is such an undercooked food on
barbecues. Do you agree with that? Because it just- Interesting. Yeah ... often is like a nightmare, without the right tools. So guide us on the world of cooking veg on barbecues.
Jun: Courgettes are really good on the barbecue. Asparagus when they're in season. I do peppers on the barbecue. And what it is, you want to keep them big pieces. So with a courgette, I'll just cut it in half. With a red pepper, I'll keep it whole. And you don't actually need to oil it to begin with.
So you season it, let the vegetable soak up the seasoning. You put it on the grill, blacken it all over, and then you put olive oil, sherry [00:07:00] vinegar, little bit of thyme and garlic, and it's really easy. And I wouldn't do too much to it, just roasted vegetable with kind of a bit of olive oil, garlic, seasoning, and a bit of sherry vinegar.
Arthur: Keep it simple. Do you find it very therapeutic, the actual process of cooking?
Jun: No, not really. No. , I don't find it stressful, but I've been doing it such a long time. Yeah. For 35 years. I don't find it therapeutic. I go what do I find therapeutic?
Taking a walk out in nature. I enjoy going to the gym.
Arthur: Where does your mind go when you're, say you're gonna cook us an amazing meal.
Are you just focusing? Do you go into this world of just you are completely zoned in on one thing?
No. Or are you processing loads of different things in your world?
Jun: When I'm at work, I'm super focused on what I'm doing, 100%. I don't think about anything else apart from the, the task that I'm doing. When I'm at home, I will listen to a podcast.
My mind is [00:08:00] completely somewhere else. Because the actual the food that I'm cooking at that time is very easy and simple, and I don't really have to put much thought into it.
And then I listen to yeah, podcasts. I like learning new things every single day. So it will be podcasts on leadership and, it's
basically leadership podcasts. Really? Really? Yeah. Yeah. I have, ... Yeah, I listen to three or four of them and then I, I really enjoy it. Because I'm learning something new and I feel like I'm really maximizing my time.
I'm cooking and then learning- Yeah ... something at the same time. And I do the same thing when I go to the gym. I listen to a podcast. So you're working out, getting healthy, and also hopefully learning
Arthur: Yeah. And jumping into food.
You're so busy with, running this restaurant
where are you with your excitement for discovering new flavors, trying new things?
Jun: The way we develop dishes at The Ninth, it's, so Filippo, my business partner and [00:09:00]executive chef, Erica, my head chef, myself, will sit down, and we'll look at what's in season.
And then during the summertimes, you got tomatoes, and cherries, and courgettes, and green beans broad beans. And we'll look at those ingredients, and we'll look at our menu and think, "Okay, what do we need to change on this menu?" And then it's a matter of combining different flavors.
Everything that we do in terms of flavor combinations is the foundation is classic. So it's nothing too out there. Personally, when I go out to I enjoy classic flavors, because I believe they're the ones that are the most delicious.
So everything that we do are based on that kind of traditional combination of flavors. And so if it's, lamb, artichokes Beans broad beans, peas. And that's a starting point. And then from there, then we will look at how we make the sauce, what ingredients we add to it.
Does it need more acidity? Does it need [00:10:00] something creamy on the dish? And it's
starting
with the ingredient, seasonal, classic combination of flavors, and then you go out from
Arthur: A point you make really clear is that you want this place to be people's favorite restaurant. Which is very different in your words to having the best food, experience ever in your world.
Which- Yeah ... which I think w- yours, was it Noma?
Yes.
Yeah. You're right. That tells a lot about you and what you wanna give to people. You insinuate, that you've got this responsibility but also this luxury of connecting with people and giving them this experience for what you know is special to them, right?
That, they're paying for an experience- can you
give us
a sense of
what that looks like? The,
the
experience that you've worked so hard to create here, and the experience that you really like to create to make people feel, that this is the place that they
wanna come back to time and time again? When
Jun: time and time again. When you say a favorite restaurant, if you ask that question, whether it's a movie, a restaurant, a hotel, it's never [00:11:00] probably the best. It's somewhere that you feel comfortable, that you feel at home, that people recognize you. It's, food that you want to eat on a regular basis.
Noma was the best experience I've ever had. Would I want to eat that once a month? No, I wouldn't. Once in a lifetime is enough for me. But then you want someone
Arthur: to
Jun: think that, your restaurant is their favorite because they're gonna come back over and over again, and that's good for business as well.
And to be able to do that, you have to
Arthur: make
Jun: people feel that they're seen, and they're heard, and they are recognized, and that we are genuinely happy to see them. And in my
opinion, I think it should be food that's not too challenging. It's a menu that you read and think, "I really wanna eat this.
Oh, I wanna eat that as well, and this." So when you read the menu, there should be a number of things that you want to eat, rather than trying to [00:12:00] figure out what it is that's in the dish. That I think is really important. Because when I choose to go out to eat, and I'm a chef, so I look for new places.
The
favorite restaurants are places where I really feel like having that dish that they do,
Arthur: right? Yeah.
Jun: And eating that food, or I crave those flavors. And so those are the places that I frequent more, more than others. And I think that is the idea of creating a favorite restaurant. Make the guests feel valued, seen, that we're genuinely happy to see them, and create dishes that are ultimately delicious. That it isn't challenging,
Arthur: that
Jun: people don't have
Arthur: overthink
Jun: to overthink about their
Arthur: the dish. That's such a great point., That's so, so, true where you're reading a menu looking at some things, you're just like: I don't know what that word is."
Happened to me yesterday where I was like... It w- it was actually a form of, it was a [00:13:00] type of pasta. Yeah. You wanna be able to join the dots. Now, without any consumer business- what you offer is a whole experience.
From calling up a restaurant to arriving, using the bathrooms- Yeah ... the whole thing. Can you give us an, some of the things that you've done here that are non-obvious about making the experience special
for people?
Jun: It starts from the moment they arrive through the door.
How you greet the guest. And it's the small things that make the huge difference. We always try to make sure that initial, sense of arrival is genuinely warm and welcoming. And we tell all the team that no matter how busy we are, whether it's the chef the barman, waitress, if a guest passes
to look up, make eye contact, and smile.
This is super important. When they're arriving, when they're leaving, because that connection [00:14:00]of being recognized and smiling at them- ... it really does make a difference. And it seems like a very small thing, but if everyone does it consistently all the time, makes a huge difference. Because those things create that feeling around the restaurant.
So when a guest leaves and they pass the barman, he looks up, smiles, say, "Thank you very much." And then the receptionist, and then one of the waiters. And everyone does this, that makes a huge difference. The other thing is trying to anticipate the guest's needs. So we talk about this quite a lot in our briefings.
When someone asks for something, you're too late.
Arthur: It's
Jun: about anticipating what they need, which means that when we are there with the guest, when we are on the floor, it's to anticipate their needs and to be very present of what's going on. So you have to be really aware with your eyes, with your ears, [00:15:00] looking around.
Does that guest... Oh, he's looking around. He must want something. Or you overhear, as an example, a guest saying, "Oh, that's the best crab tart that I've ever had." We offer them another one without, them asking for it. It's really important to be very
Arthur: present
Jun: in the moment rather than...
, we all do this because you're so busy. You're just thinking, "Okay, what next? Okay, I need to, lay out this table, clear this table, the bill for this table." Sometimes we're so focused on the things that we need to do that we're not really present, and I think that's part of creating a,
Arthur: an
Jun: experience for the guests that they remember is being very present when we are serving them, when we're interacting And then with the food, to make sure that
it's
Arthur: ...Very
Jun: delicious and .
it's the kind of food that people wanna eat on a regular basis. You [00:16:00] mentioned about a pasta shape that you don't recognize. I think that's okay because sometimes there's no other way to describe a pasta shape-
or a sauce apart from the actual name itself.
Arthur: The
Jun: waitress or the waiter needs to explain it. But how you write the menu, people should feel a connection to it. I understand why lamb goes with this.
I get it. I can taste it. It's when you read a menu, that you think, "Okay, why is that with this?
I've never had this ingredient with this particular meat or fish." That's not to say that restaurants that do this aren't amazing.
But to create a favorite restaurant, and for what we do here,
That's not
Arthur: There must be, so many processes and specific ways in which things are done.
From, pouring a glass of wine- ... to taking, taking an order, and different places do things differently. Can you give us [00:17:00] a flavor of some of the processes that you do here
Jun: one of the interesting things about how a service functions in a kitchen that people don't realize is it's broken into different sections.
So our kitchen has a meat section, a fish section, a vegetable section, a larder, which is starters, pastry section, and a pass. So there's six chefs, and each one is in charge of a particular section. So when you order the dishes, one chef will be cooking the fish, one chef will be cooking the meat, one chef will be doing the starters, one chef doing the vegetables.
And then the pass is where I would work, or my executive chef, or my head chef. And what we do is all the ingredients come onto what's called the pass, which is where we plate up all the dishes. Then we can taste everything
And then we plate it onto the plate, and then it goes out to the [00:18:00] guest. So we are essentially the last person to check everything before the guest experiences or tastes the food.
And it's coordinating all those different things at the same time to be able to plate up and send out to the guests. The communication within a kitchen is very short. You need to be to the point because too many words just overcomplicate it. And, the check comes on, we read out the checks, and it's all about
Arthur: Checks being the orders, right?
Jun: The orders. Yeah. Exactly. We read out the orders, and then we will time everything and we'll say, "Okay, how long for starters on table 12?" And then it's in minutes. So we'll say, "Okay, seven minutes. Okay, how long now? Five minutes. Four, three, one minute. Plate up now." So everything is constant communication.
A lot of it is time, and everyone is talking with each other about when to come up with their dishes. [00:19:00] So everything, the guest gets it all at the same time.
Arthur: the mind is stretching just trying to work out all of that,
Jun: yeah, it sounds a bit chaotic, but it's
Arthur: , It's not.
Jun: It's just how kitchens run. And and you get used to it
Arthur: How the waiters and waitresses- ... interact with customers. Are there particular ways that you like things to be done
Jun: The most important is that we are relaxed and warm and just genuinely welcoming. That for us is the most important thing.
So service isn't stiff or polished. It's friendly because we want the guest to feel at home. And sometimes you can walk into a restaurant that's super- Yeah
stiff, and you feel slightly uncomfortable, we don't want that. We want everyone to feel that they can be themselves. That's an important part of being someone's favorite restaurant, is a place that you can relax- and you can be yourself.
Arthur: And looking around here, you
can see [00:20:00] some really wonderfully displayed wine bottles. Some nice light. Were you involved in, for example, choosing, the interior
Jun: we used Dale. He has Rosendale Design, interior designer. And then I was working with him for a year- before we opened this. I love New York and New York restaurants and that feel. And so when we found this site, he knew exactly what kind of feel that I was looking for. And again, it was about warm, welcoming, all those words, relaxed.
We did this on a shoestring. It was really,
Not a lot of money.
He was so creative in coming up with this look.
Arthur: Something extraordinary happened here, one day, about 2:00 in the morning, you get a phone call-
Yes ... and it's the fire brigade. They're calling to let you know that there's been a fire in your restaurant Your world, and we're gonna go into this and quite, how accurate this is.
But your world did change. You've made the comment that fire or no fire, , you would've chosen to have [00:21:00] had the fire in hindsight based on where things have gone for you from there. So the restaurant was shut for eight months, right?
Yeah. Restaurant shut for eight months. Complete crisis. Yeah. This is the busiest period. It's post-COVID. Everyone's wanting to eat out, and you're like, when we reopen, we need the team. We need to make it really clear to the team that they've got their jobs, we need them, we want them."
Yeah. And you just threw yourself into, t- twice a week doing amazing activities from yoga to foraging- doing things with the team, and as a result, people work differently as a team now because of that. You've received recognition for how special it is for people to work here.
Work here
Arthur: That's
really of note. In an industry which is notoriously difficult to work in, with various different dynamics today. Yeah.
So
it's really of note that you have that reputation. What
to you, do you feel is true that people need to learn from your experience around creating a great work [00:22:00] environment?
Jun: I think to create a positive culture within a business, within a restaurant or any business, for us it is the foundation of everything.
When we opened the restaurant 11 years ago, we wanted to create a workplace where the team feel valued and they feel fulfilled and they feel inspired.
And we've focused on that for e- 11 years, and there's things that we've done wrong, things that we've done well. And it's like anything, it's a learning process. And I think one of the things that we have to realize is culture doesn't just happen. If culture just happens and you let it happen, it will be bad,
Arthur: 100%.
Jun: There is, in no scenario is a culture within a business great if you just let it be.
It's like creating great food, great hospitality. You have to work on it, you have to be [00:23:00]intentional. You have to mold it. You have to think about it. You have to tweak it and really invest time and effort into creating this culture that you want.
So you need a vision for what you want, and you have to do everything to try to achieve that vision, because it only happens when it's intentional. We put as much time and effort into our culture as we do on the food we put on the plate and the hospitality we give our guests.
It is equally, if not more important. Once the team that work here feel fulfilled and they feel valued, they feel listened to The guests can feel it. They can. We have people coming in for trials, which are people coming in for work placement for a job, and I interview them afterwards, and they always say, "Oh, there's something different [00:24:00] about this place," because you can feel it when you walk into a restaurant, a business.
You can feel the culture, wouldn't you say? Absolutely. I always say that you step foot into a kitchen, within two minutes you know what the culture is because you can feel it. Sp-
Arthur: Let's spring out. . You're interviewing someone, working out if they're right for the job.
You get a sense of what they're like. - Obviously people can, can be quite clever at projecting themselves in a certain way. Do you give them , a package of that explains story and the things you, you expect? What happens when you, for example, when you can hear a conversation-
with someone new- and they're just talking to c- one of their colleagues in a way that, to you, doesn't match your culture what happens?
Jun: When we interview someone, we will look at their personality more than their CV.
Yeah. Because we can teach people how to cook, we can teach people how to serve a guest. You can't teach personality. So we look for people that fit within our culture. This is really important. [00:25:00]And
Arthur: you
Jun: can tell y-
Arthur: because
Jun: They come in for a day, which is a trial, and when you interview them you can get the sense, the feeling.
Sometimes we do get it wrong. And when we sit down, we talk to them, we explain how important our culture is. So even before they come in for a trial, they know how important this is to us.
And if it's not something they're interested in they wouldn't even come. So that's the beginning, is explaining who we are, what's important to us
Arthur: and
Jun: choosing people we believe that will fit into the culture. Once they start, we will sit down with them on a regular basis, and if we find ... It doesn't happen that often, to be fair.
When you hear One of our team speaking with someone in a way they shouldn't, it doesn't happen that often, But when it does, we deal with it, we deal with it straight away. Straight [00:26:00] away. Yeah. Immediately. We don't let anything sit. Any kind of, Even in the smallest things, we will sit down with them and say, "You can't do that, and these are the reasons why.
This won't happen again." And we're very direct, specific, respectful.
When we give feedback, this is another part of creating this culture,
Arthur: it
Jun: has to be not about the person, it's about what they did, what they said. So it isn't about their character, it is, as an example, "Arthur, when the commis chef, threw away the lamb trimmings you swore at him, right?
You can't do that because it, that's not what what we do." Rather than saying, "
Arthur: Oh,
Jun: you're so rude."
It's not... It's about what the person does or says rather than the person's character. This is really important because when we get feedback- . We take it personally, right?
And so we have to separate that. And it's not about the person, it's about the [00:27:00] action. So this is one of the things it's-
Arthur: is- That's genius.
Jun: There's zero tolerance for that. And if people don't change we don't keep them. Yeah. As simple as that. We're not afraid to let people go. And this is something that I've learnt through mistakes, is sometimes we keep people within a business who's not right, and we know it,
Arthur: but
Jun: we keep them because we're short-staffed.
Big mistake. And I've done that many times. And I'm trying to teach the senior team about this. It is better to be short-staffed with the right people than fully staffed with the wrong ones it only takes one person who is the wrong fit to destroy a culture that you built. And we have to be really aware of it because the culture is something, as I said, that you create, and it's lived every day by the people that work here.
But then if you have one wrong person, [00:28:00] it can destroy this, culture you're built. So it's really important that when you see that you let them go immediately.
Arthur: Reflecting on oneself, pe- it can be helpful to slightly work out what, one's own behavior, one's values,, one's own culture
. Clearly, you've done a lot of that, and you're you're leading, and contributing, and trying to work out the best way of doing things
what do you think is a helpful way for people to reflect on their own culture for themselves
Jun: I'll talk from a perspective of creating a positive culture within- Yeah ... within a restaurant. It has to start from the top. Otherwise, it doesn't work. It has
Arthur: start with the
Jun: owner, the executive chef, the CEO. It has to start there it's about
Arthur: setting
Jun: that , that ambition. And it's a journey. It's not, we're here, that's it. We improve every single day, sometimes we do make mistakes, and then we learn from them and we improve. One of The most
important [00:29:00] skills of leadership, is self-awareness.
It's actually reflecting on areas that you know that you are weak, and also having people around you that will tell you as well. This is really important. What happens is that as the more senior we get in a position, in a business, in a restaurant, the less feedback we get,
And so eventually, you get to the very top, and actually no one's giving you feedback.
That's why you get a lot of leaders who are very unself-aware, because no one tells them I don't think, you shouldn't have done that because whether that's out of maybe they're scared to say that, maybe they don't feel it's their place, but how are we supposed to improve, all of us, unless people give us feedback?
Because we have blind spots, right?
And those blind spots are areas that we need to improve, so we need to surround ourselves with people that are willing to give [00:30:00] us honest feedback. And to be able to do that, you have to create a safe environment for them to be able to do that, which means that when you make a mistake, you own up to it, to everybody.
"You know what? Hands up, I made a mistake." And even the smallest things. If I turn up
Arthur: five
Jun: minutes late, I will apologize and say, "I'm sorry I turned up late," because I would expect everyone else to do exactly the same. And admitting that when you make mistakes and showing the team that actually it's okay to make the mistakes as long as you learn from them and improve, owning it and expressing that to all the team shows that actually it's okay, and they feel
Arthur: safer
Jun: to be more open.
And the other thing is asking for people's opinions consistently, like all the time. I love the [00:31:00]phrase, "What do you think?" I say that,
Jun: 20 times a day.
Constantly
saying, "What do you think? What do you think about this? What do you think?" And really listening to them. It doesn't mean that you take every single idea that you're told, but it means that you're listening, you're- Yeah
Understanding what they're saying, and sometimes they come up with great ideas which you
Arthur: you implement.
Jun: And
Arthur: Yeah, a lot of this links as well, to integrity and feeling connected to the team... clearly, you've created an environment where people really feel like they're part of a ship, part of a team that they, that
They can add value to, and it's okay to mess up occasionally because, that does happen in a team- Yeah
right? But it's like sharing that
Jun: I think creating that psychologically safe environment, that is key
There's so many places that you are fearful of making a mistake. You are fearful of giving feedback to your boss. You don't know how they're gonna react, creating a positive culture, is leadership. It starts from the leadership and the leadership team, [00:32:00] and setting the example for everyone else to follow in the way we show up to work in a positive way, how we communicate with everyone in a respectful way, how we ask for opinion, listen, give feedback.
All these things has to be an example set by the senior team. And then the other thing is creating that safe environment where people feel that they can be open and honest, and not scared to voice an opinion.
Arthur: Is there something you can think of maybe it was a behavior you heard about or an attribute that you've been like, "Wow," "that's really something I would like to have more in my world and my team." "
Jun: Yeah. Jada, our GM Filippo, our executive chef they have real empathy.
A
lot. And it is a skill And , we should have more of that.
I'm not naturally an empathetic person. And I've learned so much from them and see how they interact with the team, [00:33:00] and it's something that I would want more of in our business
Arthur: Five cheeses to eat before you die
Jun: From Dombe. Coulommiers,
Époisses Saint-Marcellin, and Comté
Arthur: Three restaurants in London that people should hit up
Jun: Camille. That, in Borough Market, is one of my favorites at the moment. And the reason I love it so much, Elliot's the chef owner, is they do offal, and I love offal And he's really creative, classic flavors.
But he's the kind of menu I read,
Arthur: and
Jun: then I end up booking a table because there's two, three dishes that I want to eat. It's that kind of place. So I'd highly recommend Camille. Parilla, which is a local restaurant for me. Ben is the chef. Amazing. Very creative and always [00:34:00] really delicious.
Arthur: And
Jun: then the third one would be Plonk.
seb is the chef, the owner. And again, it's just very... It's simple, but the flavors that he gets in his dishes is incredible.
Arthur: Three ingredients to bring with you on a desert island.
Jun: Soy sauce.
Arthur: Such a great answer. Such a great answer.
Jun: Yeah. Bit of raw fish. Lemon. Most dishes benefit from a little bit of citrus or a little bit of vinegar, just lifts the flavors. And
then I would have the third ingredient. Anchovies, because they're one of my favorite ingredients. You can have them on their own. Really good ones from Cantabria, which is northern Spain. You can have them on bread with butter. You can crush them up into a vinaigrette. You can put them in a stew.
You can have them with pasta. It's really versatile. And it adds that [00:35:00] umami flavor to all the recipes.
Arthur: So I'm gonna say a few ingredients or dishes. Sure. And if possible, if you can think of something that to you, you want in them or an ingredient or a way of cooking them just that really makes them pop.
So popcorn.
Jun: Popcorn? Yeah how to make them pop?
Arthur: Are you happy with, the, with what's on the market at the moment? Yeah. Or are you
like- See, I- ..."No, where's the anchovy popcorn?" No.
Jun: I think I always have sweet and salty. I don't think it misses anything.
I
wouldn't put any spice on it, would be the obvious thing, but I'm quite happy with the- Yeah
the salt and sugar.
Arthur: Fish pie.
Jun: I would probably add some shellfish. So normally you wouldn't add things like cockles or mussels, but I would add some
to
that because the juice that you get from mussels or
Arthur: or
Jun: is some of the best flavored seafood sauces.
Arthur: Sorbet.
Jun: Blood orange. Yeah, when they're in season. Blood orange sorbet is [00:36:00] really delicious, and then you can serve that with a little bit of mint oil, which is nice.
Arthur: Eggs in the morning. How to make eggs fun in the morning.
Jun: In Thailand they do these
Arthur: eggs which are really and they whisk them up,
Jun: get as
Arthur: much air into them as possible. Super hot frying
Jun: bit of
Arthur: oil, and they throw all the eggs inside and it kind of puffs up ...a little bit. So almost a little bit like a soufflé at the edges, and goes very crispy.
And then sometimes they put them with oysters, three small things that hospitality people notice in a restaurant that maybe some
other people won't
Glasses not being perfectly polished.
Arthur: Make it personal rather than the hospitality. What I notice is the greeting, the first ...person that greets me. I will notice whether it's warm or whether it's kind of business as usual, and that always stays with me.
And [00:37:00] then the other thing I notice is
When,
I notice when a dish is lacking seasoning, which
Jun: I think
Arthur: your kind of normal person would- ...wouldn't, get as much. And it's a chef thing,
Jun: we taste
Arthur: something we,
notice straight more seasoning, it's got too And then the other thing that's really important is the, how clean the bathroom is. Very important.
Now you've touched on your experience working for Marco Pierre White and that giving a few different things. A very strong flavor of what real hardcore talent- and, a- professionalism in, certain respects- Yeah ... does look like. Can you share how that perfection's created?
That perfectionist comes from Marco.
...When I worked for him, he was still in the kitchen, three Michelin stars, and he used to call it SAS of Yeah. And he was completely right because it's a group of young, highly talented chefs- ... cooking the best food in the
Jun: country.
Arthur: The kind of obsession for [00:38:00] perfection came from And his drive to create, yeah, the best food in the country. To be able to work in that environment was a privilege. It was hard. It's the hardest kitchen that I've ever worked in. But I don't regret it because I learnt resilience- ... which is very important in our industry, in life in general
Jun: And you
Arthur: can't teach resilience.
It's something that you have to experience, right? You have to go through the hard times to build that resilience. And I think sometimes we don't put enough importance 'cause life is hard, and if you haven't gone through hard times, how are you going to survive when things become difficult?
So I really appreciate that. I appreciate to be able to work in an environment where everyone was cooking at that level. And
It's inspiring [00:39:00] to be surrounded by cooking at such a high level every day consistently
Jun: 100 hours
Arthur: a week It is inspiring. Tiring, ...but it's inspiring. It's a great privilege you have- in, being able to meet so many different people who come and eat in your restaurant, but also all the different people that come and work here. Yeah. And that have been in your team over the years. Can you give us a flavor of that? It must be so fascinating hearing about what people end up getting up to, people who were in your team maybe 20 years ago
, in very different roles to you.
Andy, my first head chef who opened the restaurant with me, he was with us for a year and a half or two years.
He actually works on a boat. So
Jun: he's,
Arthur: executive luxury yachts, and he's been doing that pretty much ever since he left. He loves it. He gets to travel and, he enjoys the [00:40:00] Kevin, who was our second head chef, Kevin
Jun: Burke,
Arthur: he opened a restaurant called Library Street in Dublin, and it was in the Irish Sunday Times as, I think it was the best restaurant don't think- I
don't wanna get this wrong. Yeah. But I was pretty sure that it was the Irish
Jun: Times Library
Arthur: Street yeah, which is incredible you talked a bit about leadership
earlier.
When I think of the leaders that I've come across, maybe they've not formally been like a direct boss to me- Yeah
but certainly, look up to them
in certain ways. Having that focus must pay you back in surprising ways. People sharing about things that
have happened to them since then that maybe you've given them, the strengths or equipment to be able to deal with or create value. Does that strike any memories
With
you? Actually it's Kevin, my old head chef who went on to open Library Street. I [00:41:00] heard
Jun: he did
Arthur: a podcast for,
Jun: I've forgotten
Arthur: interviewer was asking about places he's, he'd worked. And he said that this was the best place he'd worked because
Jun: of the,
Arthur: the culture we'd created, and it's something that he has taken from here and implemented into his restaurant.
And
Jun: when I heard that,
Arthur: I was honestly, so happy because that's what it's about. It's not about me. Yeah. It is about teaching the new generation of chefs, new generation of front of how to create this culture, how to be better leaders, because they take that and then they implement it- ...in another So it's about what they learn from working here, and I hope that it's not only about cooking serving that
they
learn, I hope-
Jun: To
Arthur: be, I don't know, without sounding
Jun: a [00:42:00] bit... I hope to
Arthur: be a better Because people
Jun: work
Arthur: here, they spend most of their, day working, right? And so
Jun: it is
Arthur: our responsibility to do everything we can allow them to not just in the skills, but
Jun: also in their
Arthur: life
Jun: as, as a person.
Arthur: if they take some of that into their next place, then, we've done what we need to do., We're now gonna just jump through some, some amazing- Sure ... photos of- Yeah this dish here, for example just strikes me as something, you talked about- Yeah ... creating emotions on a plate and bringing, bring, c- creating a sense that a dish that people wanna travel for.
Yeah. Tell us about this dish. So this is
Jun: cuttlefish malloreddus. Malloreddus
Arthur: malloreddus. Malloreddus is, like a pasta in the shape of like a gnocchi.
And then it's a cuttlefish ragu, which
Jun: a
Arthur: white ragu [00:43:00] made with shallots and fennel and coriander seeds, and then we make a stock out of dried squid, and
Jun: then
Arthur: we finish that salty fingers and crispy this dish was created by my old sous chef, Ewan Golcher. Really talented, very creative, it's really delicious. It's like a, a white
Jun: seafood
Arthur: ragu, And the malloreddus has this wonderful chewy texture
Jun: and we finish it with
Arthur: some bottarga as well.
Go-
Wowee. Yeah.
God, it's getting everyone hungry. A- and your menu here,
crab where do you get your crab from?
It's From Cornwall.
That crab and seaweed tart there, that's been on the menu
Jun: for about,
Arthur: for a while, five years. And I got inspired by Gambara, which is a tapas bar in San Sebastian. [00:44:00] Okay. Best tapas bar in San Sebastian. Have you been?
No. Everyone knows it's like, Yeah the area's amazing for food, and there's Gambara, and they do this crab tart.
And the moment I ate
Jun: it, I just
Arthur: thought, "This is just incredible." And so I asked the waiter at the time, "What's in this?" Because I always do. Yeah. When I love something, I ask.
And he wasn't very helpful. He just said- ... "Crab, crab and pastry." So I thought, "Okay, fine." So I went back home and started experimenting, and then it is white and black crab meat. We've got crab bisque in there, tomato fondue,
Jun: and then we've
Arthur: got a seaweed shortcrust pastry, and then we finish it with and some the journey of, the crab, for example- Yeah ... how, how difficult is it to find that supplier that you're like this is the one"? ... What is that what does that process look like? Are you trying, eight different crabs, what's that journey?
When we look for a product we have an idea of what it is, and also
we know who, who supplies [00:45:00] for us. Yeah. And so that isn't that difficult- ... yeah ...to find. And Who is that Or w- it comes from Flying Fish, yeah, which they're based down, down in Cornwall.
Yeah. And yeah , sourcing the,
The best ingredients is about the relationship you have with the suppliers, Yeah. and we have some incredible suppliers jen, such a pleasure to have you on, sharing so much about what you've learned, what you're inspired by, being so generous about, so many kind of details of your journey and things that are important to you.
So thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much.
